Curse

Stormcloud · Dec 08, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I find that I no longer "farm" for money, but im stuck still with chests. The changes they have made to chests IE randomizing for all party members has only affected me in that I no longer seek chest groups.

With that said I still go chest hunting because of that addicting title

My only hope while popping chests is an occational Item that will net me another 30 keys or so.

Haggard · Dec 08, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Here's one for you:

If high end items, titles and lots of gold place you at no direct advantage over other players (skill over grind), why does Anet take steps to suppress new and more effective methods of farming them?

ChaoticCoyote · Dec 08, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Sorry - dupe post! Grumble...

ChaoticCoyote · Dec 08, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

ANet is obviously supportive of non-bot farming -- otherwise, why would they have titles that can only be attained via farming?

It's not like you're going to advance beyond the first couple of levels in the Wisdom or Treasure Hunter titles without farming chests or good items. And those titles provide an in-game advantage via reducing your chance of destroying an item while salvaging.

Now would ANet introduce items like Vabbian and FoW armor that can not be gained without farming.

Sable Phoenix · Dec 08, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

At ArenaNet we play the game just like you do, so we know that for most of you, gold is a precious commodity that you work hard to attain. In fact, our statistics show that 50% of all active accounts have fewer than 10 platinum pieces, and 75% of all active accounts have fewer than 20 platinum pieces. So when we make small tweaks here and there to keep the economy under control, please understand that we’re not trying to make the game harder for the average player. We work hard to understand how normal players play and how extreme players play, and then find just the minimal changes necessary to keep the economy healthy and fair.

Regardless of whether or not their statistics on player gold are still true, if this is their goal, they've failed miserably and are still failing. In fact their design decisions have actively pushed the game in the opposite direction, implementing more new items or changes that continually push standard items higher and higher in price. Insignia are a glaring example of this.

The Ernada · Dec 08, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

Regardless of whether or not their statistics on player gold are still true, if this is their goal, they've failed miserably and are still failing. In fact their design decisions have actively pushed the game in the opposite direction, implementing more new items or changes that continually push standard items higher and higher in price.

What are you talking about? Prices for most weapons have gone way down with a few exceptions such a elemental/crystalline swords. "Standard" items are lower in price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

Insignia are a glaring example of this.

Again, what are you talking about? Insignias are dirt cheap too. Most of them cost 100 or 200 gold. Last I saw, even Radiant Insignias were 600. And personally, I keep getting Radiant Insignias so I'm sure many others are as well so the price will keep plummeting as demand dies and supply keeps continuing.

Sable Phoenix · Dec 08, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

What are you talking about? Prices for most weapons have gone way down with a few exceptions such a elemental/crystalline swords. "Standard" items are lower in price.

I'm not talking about weapons. Weapons have never been difficult to acquire for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Again, what are you talking about? Insignias are dirt cheap too. Most of them cost 100 or 200 gold. Last I saw, even Radiant Insignias were 600. And personally, I keep getting Radiant Insignias so I'm sure many others are as well so the price will keep plummeting as demand dies and supply keeps continuing.

Dreadnought's Insignia, 1.5k

Lieutenant's Insignia, 3k

Bloodstained Insignia, 12k

Buying any insignia you want integrated into the armor for a flat rate of 500 gold? Priceless.

Factions' Armor System. It's the only one you want to wear.

lyra_song · Dec 08, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

Dreadnought's Insignia, 1.5k

Lieutenant's Insignia, approx. 3k

Bloodstained Insignia, 12k

Dreadnoughts - mostly useless

Lieuts insignia - limited uses

Bloodstained insignia - Gee....nightfalls gets 20 HRT 20+20 HCT staves...

.-. not really good examples, imo

What do most people use? Radiant insignia or Survivor's insignia.

How much do those cost?

Sable Phoenix · Dec 08, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Dreadnoughts - mostly useless

Lieuts insignia - limited uses

Bloodstained insignia - Gee....nightfalls gets 20 HRT 20+20 HCT staves...

.-. not really good examples, imo

What do most people use? Radiant insignia or Survivor's insignia.

How much do those cost?

If nobody uses those Insignia, why are they so incredibly expensive?

Sorry to disappoint you, but they're perfect examples. You could get them for 500g each in Factions, integrated into the armor. In Nightfall they've been changed into a dynamically priced commodity, a change which could have been easily avoided, and as a result, some of them have become completely out of reach to the majority of players.

The Ernada · Dec 08, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

I'm not talking about weapons. Weapons have never been difficult to acquire for free.

Dreadnought's Insignia, 1.5k

Lieutenant's Insignia, 3k

Bloodstained Insignia, 12k

Buying any insignia you want integrated into the armor for a flat rate of 500 gold? Priceless.

Factions' Armor System. It's the only one you want to wear.

The point is that overall, the insignia system is better than the old system. Just because there are a few exceptions doesnt make the system bad. So 3 out of 70 inscriptions are overpriced? That's still damn good overall. It may be 500 overall in Factions but it's only 100 gold for MOST insignias in Nightfall.

I do wish that "necessary" items such as insignias weren't strictlly supply and demand based so that insane prices such as Bloodstained insignias dont happen.

Sable Phoenix · Dec 08, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

The point is that overall, the insignia system is better than the old system. Just because there are a few exceptions doesnt make the system bad. So 3 out of 70 inscriptions are overpriced? That's still damn good overall. It may be 500 overall in Factions but it's only 100 gold for MOST insignias in Nightfall.

I do wish that "necessary" items such as insignias weren't strictlly supply and demand based so that insane prices such as Bloodstained insignias dont happen.

It's more than three, those were just examples I could come up with off the top of my head. Most warrior Insignia are over 1k. Pyromancer's, I believe, are about 2k, as are Centurion's, oddly. There are others, and there are plenty that are 600, or 800, which even though it's only a few hundred gold higher than Factions is still unfair.

There was no reason to change Insignia to a dynamic commodity; my point was that ANet, despite what they say, has actually made money problems worse for the average player.

The Addict · Dec 08, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I do agree the insignias/runes are too expensive , I mean, why should anyone pay 30k for a superior vigor? Runes of Vigor/ any type of runes is not a vanity, its something you need and no one is going to know you have it or not anyway.

The Ernada · Dec 08, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

It's more than three, those were just examples I could come up with off the top of my head. Most warrior Insignia are over 1k. Pyromancer's, I believe, are about 2k, as are Centurion's, oddly. There are others, and there are plenty that are 600, or 800, which even though it's only a few hundred gold higher than Factions is still unfair.

There was no reason to change Insignia to a dynamic commodity; my point was that ANet, despite what they say, has actually made money problems worse for the average player.

And a lot of those insignias werent even available in Factions. Only two of the warrior Insignias are over 1k. Centurion's is only 180 gold. Pyromancer is only 160 gold. Nothing else is 600 gold as you claim. I dont know where you are pulling those numbers but I'm standing at the rune trader right now as I type. Were you just making those up?

And the fact is that it's still a majority of insignias that are 100 to 200 gold each. The insignia system is FAR superior than the old system. You're taking issue with the wrong thing. You should take issue with the supply and demand issues of insignias not with the insignia system itself.

lyra_song · Dec 08, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

my point was that ANet, despite what they say, has actually made money problems worse for the average player.

In regards to insignias, i do agree with your point, the FACTIONS armor system IS the best.

However...

Insignias are also more forward compatible. It creates a system of customizability and allows them to add more functions in future chapters that affect past chapters more easily. Next chapter, just add more paragon insignias, etc.

Now....as for pricing out the average player. What average player cares about getting specialty insignias?

IF you start needing specialty insignias, then you leave the realm of the average. Ie: Needing multi-armor sets for custom builds, needing 4 helmets, etc.

Sable Phoenix · Dec 08, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

And a lot of those insignias werent even available in Factions. Only two of the warrior Insignias are over 1k. Centurion's is only 180 gold. Pyromancer is only 160 gold. Nothing else is 600 gold as you claim. I dont know where you are pulling those numbers but I'm standing at the rune trader right now as I type. Were you just making those up?

The weekend. I'm posting on break at work right now where I can't play, like I imagine most people do. Differences come most likely from my prices being at peak hours, and yours aren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

And the fact is that it's still a majority of insignias that are 100 to 200 gold each. The insignia system is FAR superior than the old system. You're taking issue with the wrong thing. You should take issue with the supply and demand issues of insignias not with the insignia system itself.

ANet creates the supply and demand of the Insignia system! They could fix it instantly if they wanted to but instead they make the situation worse! Did you really miss the entire point of the post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

In regards to insignias, i do agree with your point, the FACTIONS armor system IS the best.

However...

Insignias are also more forward compatible. It creates a system of customizability and allows them to add more functions in future chapters that affect past chapters more easily. Next chapter, just add more paragon insignias, etc.

Now....as for pricing out the average player. What average player cares about getting specialty insignias?

IF you start needing specialty insignias, then you leave the realm of the average. Ie: Needing multi-armor sets for custom builds, needing 4 helmets, etc.

No, you're very wrong here. Most players I know of have multiple armor pieces for different purposes, including myself, and we're all average. Most average MMs have Bloodstained boots. So yes, we all do care about so-called specialty Insignia, some of which are now far out of our price range. This is just one example of how ANet is completely failing in their stated goal of keeping things within the financial range of the average player.

The Ernada · Dec 08, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

The weekend. I'm posting on break at work right now where I can't play, like I imagine most people do. Differences come most likely from my prices being at peak hours, and yours aren't.

I'm not trying to start a fight but come on. Prices don't fluctuate to the degree that you're claiming. Why can't you just admit that the prices that you quoted were just wrong? Prices don't just jump back and forth from 180 gold to 2k on a day to day basis just because of peak hours. If prices went down just because it isnt peak hours than why are the other high priced insignias and runes still the same price as I speak?

As for me missing the point of your post, all I saw was you criticising the insignia system for the wrong reasons and giving out wrong facts, so I had to correct you on that. I completely agree that the prices on the other insignias should go down, but as I said, the insignia system overall is far better than the old system.

lyra_song · Dec 08, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

No, you're very wrong here. Most players I know of have multiple armor pieces for different purposes, including myself, and we're all average. Most average MMs have Bloodstained boots. So yes, we all do care about so-called specialty Insignia, some of which are now far out of our price range. This is just one example of how ANet is completely failing in their stated goal of keeping things within the financial range of the average player.

I feel that Anet has done a decent job at keeping the average player within reason of things they need to play the game.

Completely failing? Hardly.

With weapons, they have done very well. Introduction of greens for instance, collector weapons.

As for Insignias, the system i really do like. The direct blame for the prices would probably be rather lackluster drops in insignias (ive personally only gotten 3 insignias, 2 assassin and 1 mesmer).

I really dont see it as a real big deal though. I've used COLLECTOR armor in Tyria. Thats the same as a non-insignia'ed armor set.

Unless you are doing PVP, theres really no REAL need for a super specialized armor for one specific build.

Enchanted Warrior · Dec 08, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

I'm not trying to start a fight but come on. Prices don't fluctuate to the degree that you're claiming. Why can't you just admit that the prices that you quoted were just wrong? Prices don't just jump back and forth from 180 gold to 2k on a day to day basis just because of peak hours. If prices went down just because it isnt peak hours than why are the other high priced insignias and runes still the same price as I speak?

As for me missing the point of your post, all I saw was you criticising the insignia system for the wrong reasons and giving out wrong facts, so I had to correct you on that. I completely agree that the prices on the other insignias should go down, but as I said, the insignia system overall is far better than the old system.

By their own words, they have admitted an economy was a dev choice not a requirement

" It’s theoretically possible to create an online roleplaying game without a player-driven economy."

Their quoted reply on the economy is simply boilerplate no doubt suggested or written by their legal staff, to hide behind for the duration of the game. Ever read the terms on the software package before you open it. If the game loads and you can login they have basicaly done as promised, anything else that happens or goes wrong is not their problem, it's sold "As is". You know like stuff at a yard sale..

korcan · Dec 08, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sable Phoenix

This is just one example of how ANet is completely failing in their stated goal of keeping things within the financial range of the average player.

so how many hours/week do you think an "average player" plays gw?

there have been multiple threads with many references to "average players" and i was just wondering how many hours/week someone needs to play to be considered "average".

Lordhelmos · Dec 08, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

The problem with compliants arising from the rich vs poor arguement is because the mast majority of the guildwars community has an appetite for extremely rate items that they don't want to put the effort into getting. Examples of this are FoW and Elemental/Crystalline swords.

Players complain that the prices on these items are too high and that the economy is "inflated" because they can't get what they want.

Well newsflash, these are the rarest items in the game. Did you think they would be easy to get? No. We want them because they are rare, we get envious of other players swinging around that shiny crystalline because it is a symbol of status.

Of course these items are going to be hard to get. But Guildwars needs these high end items to appeal to hardcore players.

Is the economy broken? No.

Why? Because the average player can get a max weapon and armor with the same stats as a hardcore player with a crystalline without having to farm.

The economy is very fair, its that jealous players can't sort out their wants from the amount of effort they will put in to get their wants.

When you create a character you are not born into the Guildwars server all black with FoW and a Crystalline. You can have gear with the same stats for cheap, but if you really want that high-end stuff play and work for it. Don't point the finger at ANET and calling them unfair when they have given you a damn good bargain by letting you have greens and collecter goods that make you just as good as the FoW guy but at 1/1000 the price.

Now when you have to get the crystalline sword that costs 1million ecto just to play the game normally you can start complaining.

Get over it, you dont NEED those things to advance in the game. Thats damn fair, unlike most MMORPGS where a player's gear not only represents his power but his damage capabilities and defense as well.

You dont NEED high end gear to compete with anyone, its only a gracious option given to us by ANET. This is the most fair and equal system you can have in this game.

Now all they need to do is filter all that trade mess out of LA, KC, and Kamadan and gives an auction house and everything will be pearly.

Be thankful this is not a dry grind. You dont NEED all that fancy gear to survive, you can be just fine with your collecter light blues. I think this is fair.